Corner Office: Joyce Brown of F.I.T., on Using Your ‘Third Ear’

Q. What was your plan for your career when you were younger?

A. I always knew I wanted to go into psychology. I’m a psychologist by training, which I think is a tremendous help in everything I do.

Q. How so?

A. Among the more important things I learned in pursuing the degree in psychology was an appreciation of an organization’s interrelationships. I think you have to follow process even if you’re not being a bureaucrat. I don’t want to be bound by the process, but I think respecting the process is important — respecting what everybody’s role is — then figuring out how to make everybody work together.

One thing that emerged from the training, and what I do day to day, is to understand who’s responsible for what and to make sure I don’t then ask someone else to do that person’s job. It’s very easy to slip and do that. You can involve others, of course. They may have a suggestion that’s easy enough to incorporate, and then everybody owns a little piece of it. But you have to be clear about who’s responsible. Otherwise, people will cross wires, and that will create a ripple effect that’s totally unnecessary.

Q. Other ways that you draw on your training in psychology?

A. I am convinced that I have a third ear. I listen, and I really pay attention and try very hard to understand the nuances. I tell people that I will listen to what they say, and will try to incorporate what I can from their suggestions if I think they fit the objective we’re trying to achieve. If we’re not going to do what they’re suggesting, I’ll tell them why. I think people deserve that. I will tell you why, and then we will proceed. I think it works, because people feel that they were listened to, and were given the respect of an answer about why I might disagree. You gain a lot by being respectful of people’s ideas.

Q. Talk about some other leadership lessons you’ve learned over the years.

A. It’s important not to choose alliances too early. There are always issues and camps that develop in any organization. You may think you understand them, but you don’t.

I don’t really think there are people who wake up every morning wanting to tear things down in an organization. But there are people with strongly held beliefs who are driven by various things — maybe their own need to be in the limelight, or maybe some deep philosophical belief.

Q. What have you learned from other leaders you’ve observed?

A. I had people who were very helpful to me, who saw something they thought was worth developing, and they created opportunities for me. Their ability to analyze and to be thorough and to think about the impact of one decision versus another was interesting and helpful to watch.

I also saw a lot of things I knew I didn’t want to do. Some people were emotional, histrionic, intolerant and wanted to humiliate people. I also saw people who didn’t pay attention to detail, which I think will sink you every time. My staff calls me Dr. Detail — lovingly, I’m sure. That doesn’t mean I micromanage, but I need to know the details. Things can come around and bite when you don’t pay attention to the real substance.

I’ve also seen people who didn’t respect process. They reached down into the ranks and had other people doing things that marginalized the people they needed to rely on to really get the job done and move the organization forward.

Q. How do you hire? What qualities do you look for? What questions do you ask?

A. I’m really interested in who you are and if you fit in with the culture, with the team — how committed you are to the objectives and goals we’ve set, the vision we have. I like to know how they got here, so I always ask what they thought they were going to do when they were younger, when they went to college.

Why did you choose your major? What did you think you were going to do? What was your vision for your career? How did you get where you are? What were the various things that happened along the way, because invariably it wasn’t a straight line. Then I like to know a little bit about where people grew up. Are they living in the same place they grew up, or did they leave their hometown to come to New York? Are they adventurous? Are they a risk-taker? What’s their passion about? What’s driving them?

Q. What are you listening for?

A. I’m listening for passion. I’m listening for a commitment to being the best, to being successful, and a commitment to something larger than themselves, not just their personal success. That kind of drive really does blossom into one’s work ethic and attitude and approach.

Q. Anything you have a particularly low tolerance for?

A. It’s kind of subtle, but I don’t like when people tear other people down because they’re not owning what might have been their mistake. If you don’t take any risks, you certainly won’t make any mistakes, but you’re not going to get that far, either. So it’s O.K. to make a mistake. You just need to own your mistake. That’s a bad sign for me if somebody doesn’t.

The other thing I don’t like is people who waste other people’s time. They’ll have meetings with no point — everybody has to come together just because you can call them all together. Then, at the end of the day, everybody’s just wasted an hour and a half, and there’s no point to the agenda. Maybe they’re just trying to show they’re in charge of something that they really don’t fully understand. So they might ask 25 questions, or even 10, when they didn’t need to ask any. Ultimately when people can’t answer all their questions, it does sort of make them seem much more smart and more important.

But it doesn’t really work when what you’re trying to do is build a well-oiled machine. All they had to say was: “How can I help you? Let’s figure this out.” They need to be committed to something beyond themselves.